S1 E14: why being yourself is good business (bonus episode)
Pssssttttt. We have a surprise for you 👀
We’re back with a bonus episode to officially help us say goodbye to Season 1 of the Colorful Futures Podcast and a big hello to season two (launching this November)!
In this episode, I’m joined by Taylor (she/her), founder of Technically Besties, for a refreshingly honest chat about what it actually looks like to build a business that aligns with who you are. We talk about the power of being neurodivergent in entrepreneurship, unlearning toxic professionalism, handling imposter syndrome, and how bring your full, messy, brilliant self is often the best strategy.
Taylors brings some insight, humor, and raw honesty to topics like sustainable business practices, authentic client relationships, and finding joy in the systems that make it all run. This episode is for everyone out there who might be curious about freelance life, is navigating their own businesses, or simply just needs to be reminded that you’re not alone in trying to figure this all out.
TRANSCRIPT
Liora: Hello my friend, and welcome back to another episode of the Colorful Futures Podcast. I'm your host, Liora, a career coach, HR consultant, and the founder of Colorful Futures. In the show, we talk about all things related to careers and business through the lens of lived experiences of folks with marginalized identities, intersectional identities, folks who have been historically underrepresented in business and in corporate work.
You can expect to hear real stories, advice, and tips from myself as well as other guests on the show.Our goal is to help you build a successful and sustainable career where you can be your authentic self.
So today we have a very awesome guest. Taylor started dabbling in freelance project management in 2015 when stress from trying to fit in at her startup job was making her ill. After nine years of lessons learned, an AuDHD diagnosis, coming out of the closet, and a lot of therapy (that’s very real), she now runs her own system strategy and tech consulting business that lights her fire in the best way.
Taylor also founded Technically Besties, a supportive community for aspiring systems strategists who also want to forge their own path. She lives in North Carolina with her soon to be wife - congratulations! -
Taylor: Thank you.
Liora: - a cat named Tilda Swinton, and a sweet boxer pup, Louie. So welcome Taylor. I'm so excited to have you here.
Taylor: Hi, I'm so excited to be here.
Liora: Yay. So, I do wanna give a little background on, kind of how we landed here. So how we ended up here on this call together with you on the podcast. I'm pretty sure that you posted to Threads, maybe, that you wanted to be on podcasts, talk about neurodivergent experiences, talk about systems, talk about being an entrepreneur, and I was like, snaps all around. Welcome in.
Taylor: Exactly. Yeah. Threads is such a cool spot to connect with people.
Liora: Truly. Truly. And I've had folks, like friends of mine, who are like Threads is terrible. Like the, like the algorithm's giving me all this weird stuff and I'm like, you have to like, you have to nurture it. You have to engage with things and like, turn stuff off that you don't wanna see. Um, so we set up a coffee chat, uh, 'cause I was like, yeah, I wanna do this. You know, we're not ready for guests yet, but let's just chat 'cause we never met before.
And on our coffee chat, I was like, I wish I was recording this conversation because we just talked through so many things. And so today's episode is gonna be a little different. I have a couple things I wanna talk about, but this is really just gonna be like wherever our ADHD brains take us -
Taylor: I love it.
Liora: - is where we're gonna go. So. Lots of things to talk about today. We have AuDHD entrepreneurship, business ownership, obviously, like I can relate to that. A lot of our listeners can. You work within systems and automations and just really like, organizing everything, can't relate!
Taylor: comes very naturally.
Liora: It comes naturally to you, yeah. Yeah. You know, I think in certain ways it comes naturally to me, but for other people -
Taylor: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, same with me. I do it for other people. Do not look at the behind the scenes of my business, cause, um, you don't wanna see it.
Liora: Yeah. So tell me a little bit about, kind of what led you to your business. Like what was your career journey like?
Taylor: Yeah, so I, going all the way back to undergrad, I got my bachelor's degree in psychology. And I actually went to grad school to be a therapist and I dropped out. I was doing really well at grad school. That's not the thing. I just, when I think about it now, I think it's hilarious that like, 22 year olds are going to grad school because like, it's a huge investment, we’re still basically children.
I learned a lot of really cool things in the year and a half that I was there, but I just didn't think that like, traditional therapy was gonna be my path. So I left grad school and I got into project management, which was perfect for me. Um, actually specifically market research project management 'cause I had been really involved in like, the psychology research department.
And so I had project management operations roles. I went up in the ranks really quickly at various market research firms, advertising agencies. And I was miserable. Not because of the nature of the work necessarily, but because of navigating interpersonal conflict.
There's a lot of drama in the workplace, like, startup ad agency sort of life, and it was really difficult. I became a job hopper. I hopped, I hopped from job to job like every few months time until I would be completely burnt out in a job. Just kept dwindling down from like one year to six months to three months, and then said I gotta do something else.
Yes. So I actually got my start in freelancing using Upwork, which a lot of people do. Um, and I had known about it because we had used it to hire, kind of like, independent contractors at my job before. So I got on Upwork. And I started freelancing. I just went into project management freelancing.
But I was taking all sorts of jobs, like VA work, online business management work, project management work. That went on for a few years. Kind of, I would go back and forth between freelancing and getting a job because I was really fighting with like, you're supposed to have a job. You're supposed to have like, a traditional nine to five and just make it work. You're being dramatic. That was always playing in the back of my head.
And I went back and forth with it and eventually all in the same year, I came outta the closet. I got my diagnosis. I was like, I'm never going back to a real, like not real, but you know, never going back to a nine to five, I'm gonna make my own thing. And I just felt like all of this, like being authentically myself, hit me in this big wave and I was like, I'm never going back. So I did it and I've been doing it for like five years now and it's amazing.
I got into systems because I love technology. I've always been super tech savvy. When I was a kid, I had to have like, the newest technology of everything and at some point in my mid twenties, I like, took a coding bootcamp and I loved it.
I just, I'm a multi-passionate person. I was learning all sorts of things. So I love tech. I love working with small businesses and entrepreneurs. Processes and workflows are just where my brain is, like, I love it. Like, I love organizing shit for people, especially when it's a really like, frustrating experience for them.
And that's how I got into systems, which systems, if that word ever throws people off, Systems are just a process, like where a process meets technology. That's all it is. So you could have a system for which, anyone who's listening to this with ADHD or is on the spectrum knows, they could probably be like, I have a system for that.
Like me, I have a system for putting on my shoes in the morning. I have a system for like, getting my day started. So it's, it's, it's pretty, uh, pretty simple concept that a lot of people can relate to and they're like, oh yeah, I followed these exact steps and use these tools to get it done, so that's how I ended up here and I love it.
Liora: I love that and thank you for explaining systems, because I think like, sometimes we get so familiar with things that I'm like, I don't know what other people don't know 'cause I know what I know and you know.
Taylor: Right.
Liora: Yeah. That's amazing. I guess I'm curious, like in, in the five years of you having your business, how do you feel like your identities of like, especially being neurodivergent. How has that played into building your business and growing it, and I mean. Five years is amazing. Like you're, you're in it.
Taylor: I'm in it. I'm in it. I've went through all these different phases too. It's kind of cool to look back and I used to look back and think, oh my God, I can't believe I did that in the very beginning. And now I look back and I'm like, look at all these cool phases I went through to get to where I am now.
The neurodivergent part, ooh, wow. I really like, I was still masking pretty heavily in the beginning of my business. I'd get on discovery calls with clients and I'd be super formal. I would dress really, really nice. I would even kinda like, hide my accent. 'Cause I'm, I'm from the South. I'm not, it's not even coming out that much right now, but it's pretty, it's a pretty strong accent. I would kinda like, suppress that.
I wouldn't talk about, like if I went on a date, which is funny, I, I know you're probably like, why would you talk about that with people? I'm a pretty open person. I don't like, hide, yeah. I just talk about anything. I would not say like, she or anything. I didn't want them to know, I didn't want like, to make them quote unquote uncomfortable and eventually that got so untenable like, I was like, why am I acting like someone else?
It basically, I got exhausted. I was just tired and I was like, why am I so tired every single day? Well, I was putting so much effort into recreating and repeating the feelings that I was so used to being in, like in a startup, like corporate sort of environment.
And then I just, then I kinda went into a phase of like, I'm gonna get on discovery calls. Or I'm gonna get on these calls with clients and I'm just not gonna care. Not that I'm not gonna care about them, but I'm just gonna talk about things I like. And now, I do a lot of business coaching now, and I have the online community for people who wanna do what I do.
And in that I talk a lot about if you just, if you just approach client relationships from a point of being passionate and nerdy and geeky about like, what you like, you don't have to do anything else. You don't have to hard sell. You don't have to do any sort of tactic. They'll have a great experience because you're having a good experience. That's how it's gonna work.
So that's how it's, kind of affected me in the presentation, is that, I finally just let go of being quote unquote professional at all. I just was myself. I was passionate. I got the work done. I did a great job. All my clients have enjoyed working with me.
If that was received not well, then it wasn't a client I wanted to work with. I'm not gonna get on call with you and try to convince you that I'm just so amazing, or convince you that I'm something that you want me to be, which has happened like a couple times. You know, people expect cer- you know, the prof, the whole professionalism idea of that, like they expect certain things and it's just not a good fit.
Now, behind closed doors, not like what my presentation is with the client. Uh, it's been really hard to have ADHD and to run my own business and to wake up every day and no one's telling me what to do-
Liora: Which is so great in a lot of ways. Yeah. But also like, fucking sucks sometimes.
Taylor: It’s the dichotomy of like, I have PDA, like I, you know, I'm, um, demand avoidant. It will cause me like, a lot of stress. So there have been many, many times that a client like, checks in and I perceive it to be a demand or I perceive it, and that's really, really difficult. It's like a really strong emotional experience for me, and um, that's been really hard to, to work on.
I'm not, I wouldn't even say I'm past it. I mean, it still happens. I am not past anything, right? We don't really get past everything, like you just. I also have a bit of perfectionism in me and that makes meeting deadlines and getting stuff out the door really, really difficult. So-
Liora: Perfectionism, who's, who's that? I don’t know her.
Taylor: Who's that?
Um, I'm like looking at the best thing you can do is work with clients that consider it kind of humorous. Like I have clients that think it's so funny that I will literally sit there for an hour. Just to make sure that this tiny bit of their project management system is set up in the right way. And I've tested like, all the possibilities, especially like, with automation, you do a lot of testing. I'm testing it like 20 times and they're like, well, if it misses up, we'll just figure it out.
And I'm like, no, we're gonna make sure it doesn't mess up. Um. So I love the clients I work with that just like, love that about me. It's like a, it's a funny lighthearted thing, like Taylor's just doing her thing and they just accept that.
So there's been a lot of challenges with that. But what I do wanna say to people who have ADHD and who are considering working for themselves, is that you would think that with ADHD people talk a lot about focus. And they talk a lot about discipline, all that sort of stuff.
Just because you're in a nine to five, and I know you work with people who are in nine to fiveS, so I'm not saying, there's some nine to fives that are gonna like that, that get it, and offer like good resources. But just because you're in a nine to five and just 'cause someone is there looking over your shoulder doesn't mean that things get done.
It doesn't mean that it's like, a pleasurable experience or that, oh, I'm gonna be more successful this way because someone's there. You'd be surprised at how much you can get done and how enjoyable work can be without someone there and without certain demands.
I would just say that like, you have to be really compassionate with yourself. That's, that's the hardest one. You have to be really compassionate and patient with yourself. And be willing to accept that your work life, your business, might not look exactly the way other businesses look, and that's okay.
I've had to accept that I don't bill 40 hours a week. I don't. I bill like 15 or 20 max. I build in other time to grow my business, I build another time to take care of myself and spend time with my friends. I don't care about 40 hours a week.
Liora: We need to talk more. BecauseI'm working way more than 40 right now. Let's be, I'm gonna be real about that. But, um, yeah, I think I bill maybe 15, 20 hours and the rest is just, you know, year two of business.
Taylor: All the stuff.
Liora: Problems.
Taylor: Yeah. Social media. We all have to be content creators now. So here I am, just like dancing for a reel, doing that for five hours a day.
Liora: Yep. Yep, yep. And then, especially now that I have like, contractors and you know, people on my team, it was actually wild this morning. Uh, this is probably the, the second or maybe third week that we've had other team members besides my VA, who's now our Ops Manager and Podcast Editor. We have so many other folks.
And this morning I see like, this scheduled message from our Ops Manager, Kristina, being like, get your time cards in. It's pay, like payday week. And I was like, what? Like what is happening right now?
Taylor: Oh no. And it's me.
Liora: Yeah. I'm like, oh,
Taylor: That has to be really surreal though.
Liora: Yes.
Taylor: Yeah.
Liora: Truly. And it's funny, I was like telling someone about this the other day. I remember when I was in, I also worked for a startup, right? And I think we may have talked about this. And when I was a recruiter at the startup, I was a couple months in and the recruiting director was like confidentially telling me that she was gonna leave and take a work break.
And she's like, I think you could take on my job and we could move you into the director role. And I was like, like this whole opportunity flashed before my eyes of like, oh damn. Like I'm actually gonna be recognized for my hard work. I'm gonna be recognized for like, the fact that I am actually very good at this job and I was like, and it's really good money, so I'm not gonna be struggling, right?
And I was so excited. And we talked about it for maybe a couple months and I remember there was like a very specific one-on-one. That right before that, I think I was talking with my therapist just about how, you know, there's all this newness and there's this potential director position. And it dawned on me that as much as I feared those next steps, that growth, I realized I've stepped into new things before. I've learned new skills, and I just, you just figure it out.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Liora: And I said in my one-on-one, to the current director, and I was like, I actually could see myself being a CEO one day. And it was such a weird realization 'cause previously I was just like, no, that seems like so out of reach. Just so unfamiliar, so far from where I am now.
And I founded a company and we have a team and eventually like that's gonna grow and I may step into that role and that is-
Taylor: Exactly.
Liora: -so fucking surreal. So surreal. I wanna come back to something that you were talking about, of how, like, I forget exactly what you were, what you were referring to, but that like, there are certain things that just never go away.
You're always kind of working through them, noticing them, and that reminded me of imposter syndrome.
Taylor: Yes.
Liora: Let's talk about it because everyone has it. Every time that I talk with, uh, a client, whether they're a nine to five client. Or they're a business coaching client. This comes up and it's so strong in the beginning. I know it was for me, and now it's just become a lot easier to cope with.
But the amount of it is still there every day. Some, you know, some days more than others, but it's like, there was one day where a client asked me, well, how do you cope with imposter syndrome? And I was like, how do I cope with it? Because all of a sudden it was like I woke up one day. And it like, didn't stop me from doing anything. So what are your thoughts on that?
Taylor: Great question. Um, something I see come up a lot and I love what you just said about it, didn't stop you. It's not gone. It's just not stopping you. And that's, that's where I'm at now. Um, with almost anything. I believe that I'm capable of anything.
It does not mean, I mean, literally yesterday I had like, a crisis. And I'll, and I'll tell you, I listened to a lot of the Mel Robbins podcast. I love Mel Robbins. Um, she did a great episode where she actually talked to her daughter who's becoming, she's giving into singer songwriting, um, sort of stuff. And she was at a party where there were a lot of famous people and she was like, I don't know why I was even invited to this. I'm just getting started, you know.
And one of the, my favorite parts of that episode was that it's actually something her daughter said, and Mel Robbins was like, that's so brilliant to her daughter, which I just love their relationship. Their mother daughter relationship. The daughter said, I'm not an imposter, I'm just a beginner.
And for me, imposter syndrome, fla, I'll say like, flares up because it doesn't go away, but it flares up when I'm trying new things. But the only thing that got me to the point where it doesn't stop me is, I mean, it sounds so simple, but you just have to do it.
Liora: Yes.
Taylor: So that you have confidence. You build like, confidence in your ability to do it, even when you don't feel perfect or feel good about it.
There's like, at some point, two paths kind of cross and you just have enough faith in yourself, even with the uncomfy feelings there. And I work with a lot of people now that are not there yet, but they're really close. But right now, they haven't really started because they're kind of just right at that precipice of like, can I do it?
And the only thing that's gonna tell you that you can do it is experience. You can't think your way into doing it. You could ask as many people as you want, if you should. Let's be real. All of us have people in our lives that are like, constantly telling us, you should do this. You should do this thing, because they're looking at you, they're not in your brain.
And they're like, you're so smart, you're so good at X, Y, Z. You have these skills, you hear them, but there's still something that's keeping you from taking action. For me, I had to try so many things. I had to like do the action before I had enough faith in myself to continue even when I felt like an imposter.
And for me specifically. I got to a point with system strategy, I'm at a point now, I am this close to being cocky about it, about like how good I am at it, and
Liora: The Leo in me is like, loving that for you.
Taylor: I'm like, someone could schedule a discovery call right now, last minute, like right after this call I could hop on, talk about anything. Be like, oh yeah, my rate's this. Um, let me know if you want an invoice. Like bye. Like I'm not worried about it, 'cause I know how good I am at it.
Liora: So you told me that when we had our coffee chat and you were talking about how like, you just feel so comfortable and so confident in your, in what you can provide in your work and, and everything, that you get on these discovery calls and like, you said that like within an hour someone will book. And I think I DMed you about this because we did a coffee chat and right afterwards I had a disco call.
Taylor: Yeah, yeah.
Liora: And thir- like 30, 40 minutes later they booked, they paid in full. And I was like, oh shit. So you just like, rubbed off on me and it's, It's been that way ever since.
Taylor: Yeah, I love that. No, I love that for you. I love that for all of us. Listen, people go, do your sales calls, make money. Yeah, I think it, it does, like it is contagious. You kind of have to like, see it and hear it, and then when you see it and hear it, you're like, okay, I'll just do that and we'll see how it works out and look how it worked out.
However, in June I started posting on Instagram for the first time ever for my business. June of this year.
Liora: Where were you marketing before?
Taylor: I almost- nowhere.
Liora: What? Oh, just like up, just Upwork, right?
Taylor: I did Upwork and I did prospecting. Meaning that I would go into like, Facebook groups, uh, even Slack communities, networking. I would just kind of put myself in the realm of people who needed my services and be really helpful.
Liora: Let's put that in perspective for a second. Okay. So you, for four and a half years, didn't use social media marketing in the way that many of us know it.
Taylor: Nope.
Liora: That's amazing. So, okay, get back. Let's, let's get back to what you were saying. I'm just blown away by-
Taylor: Yeah,it's crazy. Um, I mean, I didn't do any marketing. I mean, I didn't do any marketing. I had a website. I didn't do any emailing. I didn't do any, um, ads. I didn't do any, uh, yeah, any social, I wasn't on LinkedIn. Because I hate LinkedIn. Sorry just hate it.
Liora: Oh,I mean, I hate it too, but-
Taylor: So yeah, I, I did it through prospecting, which is what I teach now because I love the concept of just going and finding- there's so many opportunities that already exist, there just are.
Um, marketing definitely is important. Now I do marketing, but I have my reasons for doing marketing. So I started my business account in June, started having to post on social. Obviously a really uncomfortable experience for me. I don't like to be on camera. I don't like pictures of myself. I don't like videos. Super uncomfortable.
I felt really awkward. I don't feel as awkward now. Again, because I had to take action and do it until I didn't feel awkward anymore.
Liora: Yep.
Taylor: Now I'm being perceived on social media, coaching, like being a coach. Like I'm sure you know, like imposter syndrome comes up with being a coach 'cause you're supposed to be the expert. People are listening to you, you wanna be as helpful as possible. So-
Liora: I'm like, what do, do I, do I know enough? Like what do I even know?
Taylor: Yeah.Do I know enough? Like is it helpful? Is it gonna get them? And then you, you know, I almost wonder. I've never said this before. I actually never said this before.
Liora: I am so excited!
Taylor: I almost wonder if when I was 22 and I was in school to be a, in grad school to be a therapist, and not that therapists or coaches are the same thing, but they are kind of like cousins, right? I almost wonder if I was just so young without enough life experience that when we got to the point of practicing therapy with clients or with fake clients basically, 'cause we would do it on each other, which is hilarious now that I think about it.
Um, that I felt so much imposter syndrome at that point in my life that I thought I can't be a therapist. Like it was so uncomfy for me, 'cause I just didn't have the skills, I didn't have the toolkit to like, deal with those feelings of being an imposter.
And if you think about it being 22. When I was done, I would've been 24, 25, and you're sitting in a room as a therapist with like, a 60-year-old client, like, trying to like, help them through difficult issues. I think I saw that and I just didn't feel equipped to handle it.
And now fast forward, right, I just have, again, it comes back to having faith in yourself because you made it through all of these things.
So the lesson is, like we said before. I still have these feelings all the time, but the, I have my system strategy business that I still do. I have my coaching, business coaching, and I'm still doing it. I haven't quit it. It didn't stop me from doing it. I'm just gonna be uncomfy sometimes.
Liora: Truly.
Taylor: Yeah.
Liora: Like yeah, and just being, being comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yeah.
Earlier you were mentioning how the more authentic that you were in your sales calls and just being open about who you are in your life and interests and everything, do you think that that was a shift for you? Because I know for me. I, it was very similar when I started. It was like I had to sort of be polished and I was still open, but I wasn't treating clients as friends.
I think this is where I like that, it's not therapy, right, because we can like become friends with our clients.
Taylor: Right.
Liora: I actually have hired my clients for my team and now I find like I get on these calls and I'm like. I care so, I mean I care so much about all of my clients, but I care so much about their future 'cause I care about them as a person. And I'm like, you are not just a client like you are in my circle, my community.
And I saw kind of a shift in what that looked like where I have a group program so everyone would, would join the the group program. And it was wild to step back and just see everyone interact because if I was my authentic self and people were drawn to that, then they were drawn to each other. And I think that was really cool.
So I'm curious kind of how that manifested for you. Building this community of 70 plus people, snaps for that.
Taylor: Thank you. And I've seen the same exact thing in that people were very attracted to my content. So that's, by the way, that's how the people got into the community, was from Instagram.
That's the only tool I kind of used and I talk about it, and people join, and so they were attracted to the way I am, and it's always like the same feedback that they appreciated how I talked about ADHD.
I made a, I made a post that was like, this account is for the ADHD perfectionist, people pleasers who became project managers. And you should see, I got 1200 new followers from that post.
Liora: What?!
Taylor: And you should see the comments. People are like, how, how is she in my brain? Because it really is like, a true, like that's a, that's just a pipeline. So I think people relate to me and I love seeing them connect in the community because they, again, it's like a triangle, they related to me and they relate to each other.
They're also, one thing I'm really proud of, is that it is such a supportive community. Have you ever been in a Facebook group and like, someone posts something and like, the comments are like, I can't believe you didn't know this. Or they're like, snarky, snarky responses.
Liora: I'm in the craft streaming Facebook group and that one is the most, I'm like, did you forget like, the name of this group?
Taylor: Yeah, it's wild. Um, I've never left a comment like that on anything in my life. I can proudly say that, and I'm a millennial, so if anyone's gonna do it, it's gonna be me 'cause that's, you know.
But I am so proud of how like, supportive and kind, there's no snark. I've never seen one single snarky like, comment or message or response to anything. Everyone's so nice on the calls. We have like a monthly happy hour and everyone's just vibing, talking about like, their favorite shows. Everyone's really respectful and I like that.
And I also realize that, I think I give that energy of like, we are all misfit toys here. Like, we all have our shit. We're gonna be nice, we're gonna be respectful, and there's no place here to be a Karen in the comments.
Like, and you would think that that wouldn't happen, but it does like. I've seen it in Facebook groups, Reddit, you know how Reddit is, how snarky that can be.
Liora: Yeah.
Taylor: So I feel like I've set up that, that energy. I think I set up the energy of like really leaning in to like, the, the people in this group, they like technology, they nerd out about processes, they like organization. There are a lot, it's a lot of type A like sort of people and we lean into it.
It's like that's who we are and we like it and we don't try to fix it. We're gonna use that. We're gonna harness it, we're gonna start businesses with it, and we're gonna help clients do that. And I'm always, always telling them about bringing that energy to the discovery calls into your projects and to your clients. They're people and this is gonna be a lot more enjoyable if you like them. You should like them.
Liora: Yes.
Taylor: If you don't like them, don't work with them.
Liora: Yes. And you'll do better work when you like them.
Taylor: I used to work a lot like, with anyone because when you start a business, you need to pay your bills.
Liora: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: And now I can see my, like clients all kind of fit into a certain group and they're all pretty like chill nice women and non-binary folk. Like that's what they are
Liora: So real.
Taylor: Um, so you should like them. There's obviously, I give them a lot of grace 'cause I say when you start doing this, obviously you're probably gonna take on projects that you don't know if they're gonna be a good fit. Don't be hard on yourself if you take on things like, over time you're just gonna get so much more specific, so much more targeted to, towards what you like to do, who you like to work with.
Going back to yeah, like to, how being myself like has kinda manifested, you're totally right about being friends. I love being friends with my clients. I'm sorry if, if I'm not friends with them, like, no, I just don't wanna do it. Why?
Liora: Yeah.
Taylor: Like why? Like, you know, I mean, I enjoy working with people I like to work with.
Liora: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: It's really important that I feel comfortable. I had an experience in this past five years where I worked with a client that I had bad feelings about. You have to take that stuff seriously 'cause it like affects your mental health. There's bad clients that are just annoying and then there's bad clients that will just wreck you and it can wreck your confidence and so you have to take it seriously.
Working with a client that's annoying is a one-time thing and then you just don't work with them anymore, maybe you part ways. Working with a client that's really, really bad, has no boundaries and is not respectful towards the person that you are or doesn't even treat you that way, is a no go. Like the longer you stay on in that sort of situation, you're just, you're really hurting yourself. So, oh, that was rough. Yeah.
Now I'm like, going back like, oh, no. Um, but yeah. So working with people you like, working with people you feel comfortable being yourself. Like what does that look like? Well. I don't get dressed up anymore. I don't care. I'm at home.
And also I have this wonderful, I talk about her all the time, and she actually is a therapist by trade, so I think this contributes to her emotional intelligence. I work with her pretty in-depth on an ongoing basis. And the other day she like, scheduled a call with me, which she doesn't often do, and she didn't give any like context. It was just like she scheduled a call.
I sent her like three Slack messages and I was like, I don't know what this call's about, but do you mind giving me some details or, or whatever? I'd love to be prepared. Then the next message was like, if you're going to fire me, it was like, more of like,
Liora: Surreal?
Taylor: It was half funny, half like, no, I actually have, am having anxiety 'cause I don't know what this call's about. And then the last one was like, please disregard. I am riddled with anxiety. And blah, blah. And I had no issue with saying that to her.
I was like, she's just gonna come to this. I know she's gonna like, laugh and be like, Taylor, it's okay. But she sent me like, a voice note that was like, I love you so much. You're so like, Taylor. She said, one day you're gonna understand it's never anything bad. She's like, if I ever stopped working with you, that would be the biggest mistake I ever made in my business.
She was like, but next time I promise I'll add some more context and you don't have to like, ruminate on it, right?
Liora: Yeah.
Taylor: But we are human. And that experience of a client doing something that like, kind of triggers something in you, some sort of like, fight or flight or like, anxiety response. Someone I'm sure is going to listen to this podcast later and think, well, that wasn't like the most professional thing to do. She shouldn't have like, projected her, whatever, whatever. I'm human.
Liora: I mean, c’mon. Yeah.
Taylor: I need like, a safe space to do that. To be like, myself and myself is a nervous person. Myself is like, I think that if I don't have enough context and my brain is making up scenarios, baby.
Liora: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: And it's gonna make up crazy scenarios. So that's the goal. That should be everyone's goal - work with clients that you can have a crisis within yourself. And they're just like, they like, it just brings you closer.
Liora: Yes.
Taylor: They're like, I get it. She does the same thing with me. She'll like, send me voice notes panicking about things, and I love that relationship.
Liora: Yeah. And it's so important too, especially as neurodivergent people. I've had clients where I'm like, can we push our call from the morning to the afternoon? 'Cause my whole morning routine got messed up and I need to like, reset myself and regulate so that I can actually show up for you in the way that you deserve. And right now I can't be in that role for you because of where I'm at.
Not that that happens often, luckily, but anytime that that's happened, like the clients appreciate it because I'm also giving them space to say, if you ever feel this way, like, don't force yourself to be here. I do the same thing with my team. I'm like, if you need to, to take a day to-
Taylor: Yeah.
Liora: Regulate, to go outside and see the, the sun, uh, whatever.
Taylor: Touch grass.
Liora: Yeah. Touch grass, exactly. Like, just do it because I'd rather you step away, do that, and come back feeling refreshed than like push through and then all of us feel bad because
Taylor: Yeah.
Liora: Like, you know, you can't get your stuff done and it's just, you know, whatever.
We are gonna have to schedule a part two, I think.
Taylor: Okay.
Liora: And just keep chatting because it's so, like, there's so much to talk about. But thank you so much for joining.
Taylor: I love this. Thank you for having me.
Liora: You're so welcome. All right, friends who are listening, thanks for being here.